Patagonia Airshed Pullover Review

Jarred-thanks for the insight. I don’t own a wind shirt but I hear many people raving about the versatility, just trying to figure out where it would fit in.

Mike,

Got it – thank you. Hard enough to find these in a medium that I gave up when looking for one last year.

Brad,

As a concrete point of data I used my Alpine Start on 1.5 hour run yesterday morning @ 9:15 minute miles. 36 degrees, before sunrise, 6mph wind, 48% humidity. Air felt noticeably nippy with a slight frost on the ground. I consider myself warm while moving. I wore nothing underneath the Alpine Start and was comfortable on the arms and torso – I did not need to vent at any point. With an Echo underneath I would have certainly needed to vent at some point.

Naw, the Alpine Start is higher CFM than that. Perhaps ~60.

https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/107471/

There are other sources for that. A little digging will provide CFM values for various peices although as consumers we are still largely left in the dark. Experientially I can say with confidence (having used both a Squamish and an Airshed) that the Alpine Start has a higher CFM than the Squamish (~50 I’m close but not exact on that number) and is similar to the Airshed. That is why I was using it as a point of reference in this discussion.

CFM values (again from a consumer standpoint) are vague. You would do best to consider them in increments of 10. Thus a Squamish at ~50 is slightly less air permeable than an Airshed/Alpine Start but significantly higher than a Tachyon (~20) or a current Houdini (~5). However the difference between, for example, 30-35 is not particularly significant. I hope this is good information.

Edit: I also do not mean to be monolithic. Just trying to paint as clear as picture as I can. I’m sure others could take umbrage with personal appraisal and in that there is more that I could learn.

@Ryan:

“Perhaps asking a wind shirt to perform the function of a rain jacket is asking too much.”

Sure, but a wind shirt can be better than a rain jacket in light rain.

I live on the East coast. Drizzle and humidity are facts of life here. I find most rain gear miserable for hiking until the temperatures are low. A few degrees lower and the rain turns to snow, where a wind shell again wins.

(Of course, in heavy rain, then the real rain gear comes out. Or around camp/town.)

Agreed that breathability is perhaps the most important factor for wind garments. A wind shirt does not have to block ALL wind; it only has to tone it down a little.

The key is in finding the right balance between breathability and perhaps a little bit of water resistance for a given use case. This is where BPL has done a better job than most other sources of describing that balance and in finding a few garments that do the job.

Please keep up the good work. Specifically, I’d like to know CFM, HH, and MVTR for all (good) wind and rain garments.

I was referring to future reviews here on BPL.

Just suggesting that a part of the review could include sending the garment to one of the member-owned labs for CFM, HH, and MVTR testing.

(Assuming, of course, that the scientist involved is interested in such testing.)

hmm- here’s what Black Diamond said concerning the Alpine Start, this was from 2014, maybe they changed it????

I received this response from Black Diamond:

Thanks for getting in touch with us. The jacket is 40 CFM (cubic feet per minute) which is technically 40 CFM/M2 (cubic feet per minute per meter squared) but the industry simply refers to this as CFM. This is testing done by Schoeller and tested by BD. It is a stretch fabric and should increase the CFM slightly when stretched. 

The hydrostatic head is approx 500 mm. It is treated with Nanosphere but does not have any coating that is generally required to get higher hydrostatic performance.

Kim Hall | Black Diamond Equipment

Who knows.  Somewhere, I have data on tests I did of several different years of Alpine Start jackets and they all had similar results, as I recall, but I don’t know where those results are hidden away. I did conclude that the fabric has been consistent over the years. It is possible, from the information in your post that they stretched it during testing air permeability testing.  This is not something I would have done.  As for the hydrostatic head, I tested well-used jackets sent to me by a BPL member.  They could easily have lower HH than a new, never used piece of fabric.

Hi Bill:

You will see some variance, sometimes substantial, between some of my test results and some of the information previously published on BPL.  As a result, I paid to have 3rd party testing done to investigate these issues.  My results are in good agreement with all the independent testing I had done.  I had my 2018 Houdini, listed above, tested by Frazier Instruments.  They manufacture the most widely used air permeability test instruments.  They got .32 vs my .65.  .65 is about as low as I can go. Patagonia regards anything lower than 5 CFM as impermeable.  I would agree with that.  I have never succeeded in obtaining any old Houdini jackets for testing.  If you have any with the claimed higher permeability, I would like to test it. Also, I received and responded to your PM.

Stephen: OK, that’s all we can ask. Thank you. Sorry, I do not have an older Houdini. I do have a PCU L4 from Patagonia that I could send.

Stumphges: Right. When BD said, “treated… but not coated”, I envisioned something like EPIC encapsulation: A treatment that happens when the fabric is made.Thanks for clarifying.

Too bad about the Ecorepel.

It’s interesting how everyone reacts differently. I have always preferred wind shells in light rain, regardless of DWR. Somehow I find slightly-damp-from rain to be more acceptable than slightly-damp-from-sweat-that-cannot-escape-a-rain-jacket. If “wet is wet”, then maybe it’s more about cooling? In any case, the wind shell tends to dry faster than a rain shell when the rain stops.

I don’t see heavier rain as failure for a wind shell; I just see it as time to put on the poncho.

I do have a PCU L4 from Patagonia that I could send.

I’d be interested to see that :)

Looking at all three components, it does seem the Alpine Start does pretty well comparatively :)

Hi Mike:

Thank you for the offer.  One is already on the way.  I will post the test results.

Regarding Patagonia Houdini–there was an in depth discussion about this windshirt some years back on this forum.  If I’m remembering correctly, the Houdini pre 2012 had a measured (by Nisley) CFM of around 30 to 35 which he considered the optimal CFM range for balancing moisture movement against wind protection whilst backpacking on hilly, up and down type terrain/trails.

Pre 2012, it also had an EPIC like, silicone based DWR.  Around 2012, both the weave and DWR were changed and the Houdini became much less air porous (“breathable”).  I haven’t looked for any links yet, but I’m sure if you did a search of 2012 Houdini Nisley or the like, something would eventually come up.

Btw, the way to refresh silicone DWR is a combo of the following: Hot water combined with plenty of agitation and most importantly, a high pH cleanser of some kind. This could be washing soda or the like.  The high pH (needs to be at least 10 pH) cleanser helps to emulsify and break up any surface oils that may be impairing its DWR function.

This, btw, is perfectly doable on a backpacking trip.  Make a fire, once cooled, put some of the ash in water, let it sit for awhile, strain off the clear water off the top. You now have a form of lye–a high pH cleanser that will emulsify oils/fats.  Obviously be careful with this and handling (depending on how concentrated you made it, it can chemically burn the skin or at the very least strip the oils from the skin).  If you have one of those collapsible, portable, relatively light kitchen sinks, you can heat up the water and throw the windshirt in there and swish it around, and then rinse it well with regular water.  It would be easier to do all this at home, but it can technically be done in backcountry if really needed.  I could only see this as necessary on a longer trip–particularly with a lot of bushwhacking.

The good thing about silicone coating DWR’s is that they tend to be much thicker than other DWR’s and for that reason primarily, tend to be much more durable and longer lasting. But over time with use, will need to be refreshed in the above manner.  Occasionally spraying with a silicone spray after a deep cleanse, can also be helpful after a lot of time. The silicone should readily bond with the silicone coating. It is different than spraying silicone on an uncoated fabric–in that case, the silicone DWR will come off quite fast and easily in comparison to spraying on an already silicone coated fabric.  The silicone spray will NOT increase the HH at all though.  It is just too thin of a coating.  You could do the old thinned silicone caulk trick to do that, but you would have to have the ratio of thinner/solvent to silicone down perfect to not overly impede air porosity.  Not likely without a lot of testing and trial and error.