Myth Busted Winter Alcohol Stoves

Almost any alcohol stove will work at any temperature if the alcohol itself is warm. My question is: What was the temperature of the alcohol? Had it been in the house, or was it sitting outside for an hour or more before use?

I regularly use an alcohol stove in the dead of winter with temperatures of zero and below, but keep the alcohol bottle in an inner pocket of my parka or in my sleeping bag at night.

BTW… I recognize your name as related to this stove and it's design.

I too have done several 0F tests in IL. Keeping the fuel and stove in the pocket first does make it easier, but it is not required.

I’ve let the stove (pepsi can style) and fuel sit outside until they reach 0F. I fill the stove. In the summer you can bring the match close to the fuel to light it; I’m talking closed-jets-open-center stoves here. But in the cold, I have to drop the match into the fuel, and then it will light. I use cardboard matches and it’s neat to watch. The cardboard won’t burn the whole time if it gets submerged in the burning alcohol.

I’ve also done several data logging experiments in how much fuel I need to melt fluffy snow or packed snow. Then I use that info on my backpacking trips. For example, I need about 1.5 fl. oz alcy to melt 1qt of fluff down to 2Cups to 190F which is fine for freezer bag cozy cooking. When melting snow, be sure to start with a ‘seed’ like a 1/2 cup of water.

Practice 0F alcy cooking/melting-snow locally before you take it out to the wilderness. A lot of stove designs are bad for the cold. But the good ones are soooo nice and fidget free. The white-box stove also performs great in the winter howbeit the jets take longer for fruition.

-Barry

I have fashioned a “lighter stick” from a very thin piece wire (phone wire, single copper strand) with a dab of fiberglass cloth on the end and find that it lights easily every time. I found that where before it was difficult to sometimes light alcohol when it was cold, I dip the tiny fiberglass wad in the alcohol, it lights easily and also lights the fuel in the open top stove much easier.

Zelph posted his video in response to my write up of my experiences last night in -9F weather.

You can read about it here:
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=45347

Just to clarify a point or two. Where I posted the idea of using the cotton ball to light the White Box I did that just to prove that you can light alcohol below freezing , as indeed a lot of the Iditarod mushers do use Heet and the like for their stoves. However my use of the WB in the snow was a result of an accident ( out of season snow storm) and as I always have those Vaseline impregnated balls with me , that is what I used. Note also that I have an insulation layer under my stove ( A 3M green kitchen scourer. Helps with slightly uneven ground too)
Note that the mushers stoves are basically a huge bucket and that the Iditarod on a bike or foot competitors ude mostly white gas. That is why I recommended the XKG to my mate for his 350 miles adventure.
So my point is that some alcohol stoves can be used, however for multiday trips or if you have to melt a lot of snow , alcohol is not what I would use.
Franco

For cold winter backpacking though, shouldn't you avoid using an alcohol stove? I'm assuming that most folks cook in their tent or vestibule, and according to the carbon monoxide features, alcohol stoves put out an unsafe amount of CO for tent/vestibule cooking:
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/stoves_tents_carbon_monoxide_pt_4.html

Where I'm going, souther 1/4 of JMT, cooking in the tent isn't generally a good idea (I'm told) because of bears. Don't want to have food spilling/smearing/scenting in the tent. So even though it's going to be cold, I plan on cooking 100' or more from the tent.

Do most other people abide by this rule?

> A small amount of ventilation is always a good idea
Indeed!

Reality is that there are three main scenarios for this.
1) Fine weather – you can have the tent door open and have lots of ventilation. No worries.
2) Bad stormy weather – even with the tent door shut there is still going to be a fair bit of air movement through the tent. :-) Few worries.
3) Pouring rain but no wind – just make sure there is some ventilation above the stove.

Cheers

"Where I'm going, souther 1/4 of JMT, cooking in the tent isn't generally a good idea (I'm told) because of bears. Don't want to have food spilling/smearing/scenting in the tent. So even though it's going to be cold, I plan on cooking 100' or more from the tent.

Do most other people abide by this rule?"

I boil water under my tarp when it's too windy (think 30-50mph) and need significant wind block, and there are no natural features like granite handy. I don't fry bacon, fish or cook anything else near it. 99% of my backpacks this year (1-2x monthly) have been in Yosemite, Sequoia or a nearby wilderness area where bears are a "problem."

My first usage of an alcohol stove was in 0º temps was when our canister stove basically just failed. It took a little bit of effort to get the alcohol to light but the V8 can stove boiled two cups of very cold water with about an ounce of fuel.

"I take this to mean alcohol requires warming in sub freezing conditions before it will ignite"

Bad assumption. Many have cited their success at lighting cold alcohol. Empirical evidence is difficult to refute.

It think the confusion comes from the purpose and testing of flash point from a safety perspective. A large hot match has far more heat than a spark 3mm above the surface of a fuel.

Determining when a fuel becomes potentially dangerous from spark ignition in the workplace is far removed from firing up an alcohol stove in the dead of winter.