Ultra Runners know nothing about Fastpacking.

I recently bought a Fastpack 20 to replace a Montane Ultra Tour 22. I much prefer the carry and comfort of the Fastpack. The Ultra Tour gave me bad shoulder pain after about 10 miles because the hip belt didn't fit me at all meaning I was taking all the weight on the shoulders. While the Fastpack takes all the weight on the shoulders it is distributed much better and bounces less.
I don't think hip belts are unnecessary, when you look at Mountain Marathons in the UK people have been using "traditional" hip-belted packs for decades and still do, it just depends on how well the hip belt works for you.
I don't know how I could fit 20lbs in a Fastpack 20, I've just come back from an overnighter with it where I had it full to the brim and I was probably carrying about 14-15lbs max with loads of room for weight reduction.

Aaron … to put down a pack without ever having tried it is, well, sort of like saying you ran Barkley when you really didn't (40 miles is NOT Barkley).

like shoes, packs are personal. if you can't find one that is perfect for you then make one yourself, that's what I did, my pack is perfect for me though others may not like it.

If this thread was titled in a less contentious way I suspect it would lead to a more productive conversation.

"If this thread was titled in a less contentious way I suspect it would lead to a more productive conversation."

+1

There is a history of this.

"Winter is coming."

And so is Game of Thrones!

""Winter is coming."

And so is Game of Thrones!"

'Your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth.'

"Does anyone ever use a combination of a waist/lumbar pack with one of these upper body running vests?

Perhaps that would not provide enough volume for anything overnight. But in theory it seems like it would give you absolute control of how much weight goes to the hips v. the shoulders. And maybe allow more mobility? "

Kat, I end up with close to what you are talking about when I have my MLD Burn in run mode. Most of the gear is in the waist area with the pack being cinched in the middle and the top. I did the setup on the trans Zion and R2R2R trips and I believe it works as well as anything. I use a hipbelt, in fact I have my water bottles on the belt as well as food. This further shifts the weight down to the hips.

"Although I have several great runs that I've done like Barkley, and Plane, fastpacking has always been more of my forte over the past 10 years. With 2 record attempts of the JMT and 2 of the TRT…."

Aaron -so that I might better assess the weightiness of your comments, would you be so good as to refresh my memory as to how the above mentioned runs and FKT attempts turned out?

TIA,

Tom

I am yet to try one of these new vest style "fastpacks" (hard to in Australia in a store) beyond what is essentially a hydration vest geared for ultramarathons (that have on course support).

However, I do find it strange that there are larger packs out there with the same vest style, without a hipbelt. It kind of violates many basic assumptions of physics and biomechanical efficiency, to be honest. You want to minimise the mount of effort put in by all your muscles, including your core muscles, not increase it. Putting as much load directly to your hips does that. Your hips down, do the same amount of "work" (yes, the scientific term) regardless. No point making your core, shoulders, chest, back, do work that it doesn't have to, thus requiring the expenditure of energy. Wasted energy is, does, of course, mean less distance covered per unit time.

I have a couple of OMM packs from the UK. They've (The Brits etc) been doing what is closer to the "fastpack" style much longer than most of the US manufacturers have been involved. They carry excellently. Shoulder straps, sternum strap, hipbelt, foam pad style frame. I've used them for fast overnight and multiday trips, Rogaines of all lengths. Running, walking. Best running packs I've had. Yep, for me, even better than a hydration pack of only a few litres….I find without a hipbelt they bounce! So there you go. I think the key, is that they have just got all the dimensions etc just right. I can also pack a pack properly to minimise bounce issues.

I also really don't get the point of completely wrapping yourself in a harness. Maybe its just me an the conditions I move in. But even going a few degrees below freezing, the more layers, the more I sweat. Its the same with packs. That includes mesh. I definitely notice the difference of even a really open meshy safety vest when walking, running, or even cycling. Minimal contact area means better core breathability, means that your body's sweat mechanisms that are designed to cool it down work better. When you are soaked in sweat and its dripping off and not going away, and its soaking your gear, that's inefficient! However, if you are moving hard and sweating all over but its evaporating away and keeping you cool enough to keep performing at the high power (rate of conversion of energy) required relatively indefinitely then that is efficient. Now an athlete moving hard for 24 hours in relatively mild+ conditions (eg over say 15Celcius) can burn a litre of water an hour no worries. That's before sticking extra layers on top. Put more layers on, your body starts to sweat extra trying to accomodate for that. Sports science generally says that most people can only absorb 800-1200ml of water an hour through drinking (more if you are on a drip and its going straight to your bloodstream). If you are sweating extra than required (and it could easily build up quickly to the range of a litre per day or more I'd say) that's not only more drinking you have to do, more water to find, more water to treat, more water to carry, its a greater risk that you will be making a hydration deficit. On a marathon or even relatively short ultramarathon a bit of a deficity is maybe not the end of the world (though performance definitely does decrease with dehydration) but on a multiday effort it will slow you down, increase the time you need to stop moving to recover, decrease how recovered you feel from say a 30min stop, etc. Anyway I'm rambling on now.

I am impressed (from pics) by the fastpack 20 in how the mesh is manufactured into one continuous piece with different zones, all without seams. Wow! That's awesome!

"Tom,

Every one of my attempts didn't go well.
What does that have to do with my passion for fastpacking?"

Nothing, Aaron. But it doesn't put you in a very strong position to criticize a design that is the product of the combined experience of two acknowledged masters in the field, particularly the way you went about it. Also, the way you presented your credentials implied that you were successful in your attempts. That is why I asked the question, because it was obviously done to bolster your credibility. I commend you for being honest in answering. I think you would be better served in future by presenting your opinions in a less overbearing manner. It would almost certainly generate a much more productive discussion of whatever subject you choose to address.
Isn't that the whole point?

"Of course they are also trial runners"

I give up. What's a trial runner? Somebody who is found around a court room?

–B.G.–