Vapor Barrier Liners

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P>Occasionally, during the FAQ portion of my slideshows, and frequently at the start of winter, I receive questions about vapor barrier liners (VBL). The content and tone of these questions often suggest a general misunderstanding of and slight mystery about VBL, so this is an attempt to offer a comprehensive review of VBL based on my understanding of and experience with them: What they are, how they work, and when to use them.

I believe that VBL can be a critical and pivotal component of winter clothing and equipment systems - and, to a lesser degree, shoulder-season systems. Unfortunately, there is not much information available on VBL. An internet search returns information that is mostly outdated, incoherent rambling, or just mistaken. My hope is that this article will result in a greater understanding and increased use of VBL by those who recreate outdoors in winter conditions, especially those who go on extended multi-day endeavors. This includes backpackers, snowshoers, skiers (Nordic, backcountry, and alpine), alpinists, ice climbers, mountaineers, and even ice fisherman and hunters.

ARTICLE OUTLINE

What they are, how they work, and when and how to use them
What are vapor barrier liners?
Commercial Availability
A case study: Why I began using VBL
Effects and Benefits
Applicability: When to use VBL
Developing your own VBL system: Insider’s Tips
Conclusion

# WORDS: 3330
# PHOTOS: 6

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Viewing 16 posts - 1 through 16 (of 16 total)

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Posts
Feb 17, 2009 at 7:47 pm #1234135

Addie Bedford
BPL Member

@addiebedford
Locale: Montana

Companion forum thread to:

Vapor Barrier Liners

Feb 23, 2009 at 5:44 pm #1480190

Matt Lutz
Member

@citystuckhiker
Locale: Midwest

I wear ID vbl socks between liner socks and thick wool socks in winter. In the morning after a night's sleep in this setup my feet are not prunes, but they do smell terrible.

Feb 23, 2009 at 8:18 pm #1480240

Steven Evans
BPL Member

@steve_evans
Locale: Canada

I use only thin liners with ID Vapor Barrier Socks over top…haven't had cold feet for the past 2 years, but yes, I too suffer from 'onion foot' when the VB is removed. My recommendation is to stop smelling your feet. :)

Feb 24, 2009 at 4:07 pm #1480427

Martin Pomije
Member

@cold_weather_cyclist

I've read in "Secrets of Warmth" by Hal Weiss that the legs don't benefit from a vapor barrier very much except for the feet.
What experiences have people had with vapor barriers on the legs? I know that the feet sweat quite a bit naturally and are important areas for a vapor barrier.

Feb 24, 2009 at 4:25 pm #1480435

Tony Wong
BPL Member

@valshar
Locale: San Francisco Bay Area

Ryan, Roger, & Matt,

Sorry that I did not respond sooner….did not check this thread.

Thanks for the feed back on this.

I am a cold sleeper and I am trying to push the limits of what my body can take with my Marmot 40F Marmot bag.

Laying up I find that I can keep most of myself warm enough, but my feet are the cold spot.

Having used my Terroc 330s with a UPS plastic shipping bags as my poor man's Vapor Barrier Socks on a snow mobiling trip one afternoon at Lake Tahoe, I was pleasantly surprised to find how warm my feet were.

So I thought, why not for enhancing my sleep system…plastic bags are light, right?

Decisions, decisions….nice fat "heavy" socks or vapor barrier socks/plastic bag….hummmm.

Anyone have any thoughts about the relative advantages of using a plastic bag vs. "real" Vapor Barrier Socks fom RHB?

P.S. I won't be smelling my feet anytime soon. :)

-Tony

Feb 24, 2009 at 7:45 pm #1480488

Huzefa @ Blue Bolt Gear
Spectator

@huzefa
Locale: Himalayas

>Anyone have any thoughts about the relative advantages of using a plastic bag vs. "real" Vapor Barrier Socks fom RHB?

your choice: liner+plastic bag+thick socks OR RBH Socks

see this review: http://www.psychovertical.com/?rbhsocks

Feb 24, 2009 at 9:25 pm #1480509

Mark Verber
BPL Member

@verber
Locale: San Francisco Bay Area

>Anyone have any thoughts about the relative advantages of using a plastic bag vs. "real" Vapor Barrier Socks fom RHB?

Both work fine. I seems like rhb socks provides a bit more warmth for the same volume as the typically liner, barrier, insulating sock. The main advantage of the rhb socks are easier of use and more durability. No matter how careful I have been with the bread sacks I seem to hole them in a few days. I guess I am just a klutz.

–mark

Feb 24, 2009 at 9:33 pm #1480513

Roger Caffin
BPL Member

@rcaffin
Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe

> No matter how careful I have been with the bread sacks I seem to hole them in a few days.

It is not as though this is a gear failure. Rather, it reflects the fact that bread sacks were designed to be … single-use bread sacks. :-)

If you can find the large translucent PE bags used in fruit shops, they might last a bit longer. They are designed for a larger, pointier and rougher load.

Cheers

Feb 24, 2009 at 11:24 pm #1480529

Stephen Klassen
Member

@steveyk

For smelly feet after a day of hiking/skiing in vbl socks, a light dusting of Goldbond foot powder on the feet makes a big difference. Smell's better and the feet dry quicker. Put some on the liner sock as well.

Feb 25, 2009 at 4:48 am #1480556

Matt Lutz
Member

@citystuckhiker
Locale: Midwest

My winter footwear system is X-static liners, ID VBL socks and Smartwool Mountaineers for socks, and Steger Mukluks Arctics for boots.

In warmer temps (above 30(F)), I find that my feet sweat much more in the VBLs and that the inside of the VBL has more condensation on it when I remove it at night to swap socks.

That said, I love the VBL socks. Our winter camp teaches scouts to use two pairs of boot liners (not a bad call for beginners). Remove the pair of liners you were using, throw them in your bag to dry out and put the new liners either in your boots or in a backpack, or something. However, this is always frozen condensation on the inside of the boot and the outside of the liner. With the VBL socks, this is non-existant. My mukluks are moosehide and canvas, so I need all the protection from the elements I can get.

Feb 25, 2009 at 11:47 am #1480649

David Long
BPL Member

@longwalker
Locale: Pacific Northwest

Excellent article. I've wondered about VBL for years.

Stephenson Warmlight sells their sleeping bags ONLY with non-removable VBL liner, as I understand it. They use FuzzyStuff. So how well does this work? Summer nights, 50 degrees, in a Stephenson? Anybody have any experience with this?

Feb 25, 2009 at 12:19 pm #1480659

Lynn Tramper
Member

@retropump
Locale: The Antipodes of La Coruna

With the Stephenson's bag, you could just unzip the bag in warm weather, but personally I think it's stupid to have a permanent VBL built in to your bag. One of the nice things about a VBL is that you can remove it when not needed, and wash it separately to your bag if it gets dirty. Why wash a whole bag when you could just wash the liner?? Plus Stephenson's bags are HEAVY!!!

Feb 25, 2009 at 9:33 pm #1480852

Stephen Klassen
Member

@steveyk

I tried a VBL above freezing on a 3 night trip in Wells Gray in September. It didn't work for me, but I didn't have much choice.

I had taken a bag that I thought would be good to 0 C, the temps I was expecting. If it got colder, I had the VBL, which I knew worked below zero.

Unfortunately the bag was only good to 15 C without a tent, and nighttime temps were around 5C, so I tried the VBL. It kept me from being cold (not warm), but I was literally drenched, even though I was not warm, and only wearing thin polypro baselayer.

Feb 27, 2009 at 1:20 pm #1481299

Christopher Bumgardner
Member

@quillbone

I had thought about using polartec aqua shell (non-breathable version) as a vbl. Any one seen this stuff and tried it? It's really stretchy and super soft on the inside so it can be worn really fitted (which from some calculations in a bpl forum someone will have to remind me of, will hopefully help you have less moisture problems? I think that was one point that was made.) Polartec said it is about as warm as 2mm neoprene, so depending on the weather and user it may be a bit too warm. Anyway, polartec stopped making the stuff not that long ago, but some fabric people out there still have some laying around.

Feb 28, 2009 at 11:13 am #1481521

Warren
BPL Member

@icensnow
Locale: New England, USA

Stephenson bags are unusual, and best understood by visiting their web site: http://www.warmlite.com/

– As to having to wash the whole bag when the permanent vapor barrier / inner shell gets dirty – this is not usually necessary. Since it's a VB, sweat and dirt remain on the surface and can be easily cleaned with a damp, soapy sponge. You end up having to wash the whole bag less frequently :-)

– They use zippers on both sides and another on the bottom, so venting options are plentiful.
– Further, there are 2 tops – one thick and one thin. The tops zip completely off, so can be used in any combination. The thin top alone in summer, together with zipper adjustments can handle most situations. They also offer a netting top – two layers of screening separated by soft foam balls/cubes.
– they also make use of a down insulated air mattress that slips into a chamber built into the bottom of the bag. The air-mat is 3+ inches thick, so if you have back problems or just want a very comfortable bed, you might want to look into it. The inflation system is the simplest, fastest, lightest method I've ever come across!

Stephenson started producing these bags decades ago . . . a very inovative, forward looking design for it's time, and very light in weight.

I light of what I just wrote above, I guess I should mention that I have no connection to the company, other than as a customer.

Mar 13, 2009 at 8:28 am #1485255

Jon Rhoderick
BPL Member

@hotrhoddudeguy
Locale: New England

The RBH designs VB insul socks would be a perfect fabric for a jacket, its quite stretchy, and the finish isn't harsh against the skin. Pairing this with a really thin merino wool would be awesome. Also it now comes in white which would be great for regulating heat.
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