Stress free rain gear?

You first have to come to the realization that all raingear currently on the market sucks.

I have found that 3L Goretex is the most waterproof over time, though the latest C6 DWR isn’t super durable.

If you want DWR-less, I have the Columbia Featherweight and though I don’t have as many miles in it as a lot of DWR based jackets, it has performed well thus far.  It doesn’t breathe great, but it is waterproof and doesn’t wet out.

Your only other real option for DWR-less is the new more Durable Gore Tex Shakedry, like the new Mont-Bell Peak shell.

Brett,
Your topic is also addressed at: https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/dwr-wetting-out-and-wpb-breathability-moisture-vapor-transfer-rate/

Mentioned there is the success I’ve had with a Patagonia M10 Jacket (8.5 oz in size XL) and a Specter (lighter).  Both are defunct, but Patagonia makes an M10 pullover, without full zip, dubbed an anorak.

Also mentioned there are a number of variables which might explain why the above jackets work very well for me backpacking, but may not work for others.  From reading many threads on this subject, I think the devil is in the variables.  The Specter was a half zip pullover with a “2.5” laminate, while the M10 appears to have a 3 layer laminate, is supposedly more breathable, and was bought after growing tired of constantly putting the anorak on and taking it off in intermittent but heavy rains in the northern Colorado mountains.  It works well in the rain, but when the sun comes out, it gets stuffy and comes off.  I had a similar experience on kayak trips with a GTX LL Bean pull over that worked OK, but not as well as the Patagonias.

It seems that even the best WPBs won’t work for everyone, but for those folks, pit zips have been said to help.  Richard Nisley has created several threads about approaches taken by those folks, and you can find them on BPL, and might be worth reading.  There are many BPL threads on Paramo products.  I’ve not tried any of the latest stuff, like Outdry, so can’t be of help there.

Should note that I’ve tried Epic pullovers in heavy rain, and they were worthless even for me, and I have a beautiful HellyHansen WPB rain anorak bought years ago that didn’t work at all.  Just can’t bear to toss it.  Tried ponchos in the old days, and found them very uncomfortable and annoying when bushwhacking or in windy weather; and dangerous when backpacking though shale or boulder fields in the mountains, where safety depends on foot and pole placement,  Hope you find something that works better for you.

Just a comment on the op.  If a fabric is waterproof then it doesn’t matter what the weight of the fabric is -many of us sleep under 0.5oz fully waterproof fabrics.  The weight of the base fabric is relevant to durability but not waterproofness.

Mountain Ponchos:

Cheers

With Mark – ponchos or ‘get wet’.

Cheers

The funny thing was, in the photo above, that while our feet were in snow and ice-cold water (it was!), inside our ponchos we were reasonably warm and sheltered. Sure, we were travelling fast, and that was generating heat, but that is the whole point, isn’t it?

Cheers

Jeffrey – sounds like an average day in the Scottish winter ;-)

I think the general consensus here is that these commercial jackets work somewhat when they are new – but as they age and the DWR loses effectiveness they begin to fail. Event in particular seems prone to this issue. And what if you were on a thru-hike and faced continuous rain for days on end? Again, the “breathable” fabrics often fail, sometimes dangerously.

Many experienced walkers, from Andrew Skurka down, are beginning to question the utility of these expensive fabrics and return to more basic silnylon and silpoly jackets or ponchos that rely on good mechanical ventilation.

They are cheaper and more reliable, and seem to work at least as well as the fancy commercial jackets for serious lightweight hiking. I was walking and climbing in Scotland for a decade before the invention of Gortex, and never got dangerously wet in my neoprene cagoules. I did try fancy Goretex jackets but never found them any better. But they made a lot more money for the outdoor industry…

From reading this and similar threads, it is clear that best quality WPB tops work for some people as well as they do for me.  But for those for whom they do not work, the mandated conclusion often seems to be that they don’t work for anybody.  A pox on herd mentality.  Vive La Différence!

Sam – I accept that people and conditions differ, so no solution is going to work for everyone.

But are you really saying that you stay bone dry in your WPB top when working hard in persistent rain? Or do you get a bit damp, with some condensation on the inside of the shell?

Because if you’re getting a bit damp, that’s what I experience in a well-vented non-breathable. Have you tried both and got a better result in the WPB jacket? Or have you stuck with conventional jackets and assumed that they work better because you stay reasonably comfortable? Maybe not you, but I think a lot of people simply assume that WPB is superior because the marketing demonises non-breathable fabrics. But people did fine for generations before WBP emerged.

As I say, I’ve tried both over many years in a wide variety of wet conditions and haven’t noticed much difference, except in the price. If anything, well vented silnylon works better than poorly vented Goretex. So nowadays I use a jacket that costs $20 instead of $200, and it’s performed perfectly well in torrential  multi-day alpine storms. Next experiment will be Roger’s mountain poncho…

Brett – it was just a cheap packable jacket from a consumer outdoor brand. Did just as well as my previous Goretex, but would have been better with more venting. Sadly it’s falling to bits after three years of regular wear and they don’t make it any more, so it’s time to run up a shaped poncho and give that a try.

The main problem with cheap jackets is poorly designed hoods – I had to alter mine to make it more usable.