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MLD grace solo in .74 Cuben fiber (DCF) 8000+miles 7+ years (Review+discussion)


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Home Forums General Forums Philosophy & Technique MLD grace solo in .74 Cuben fiber (DCF) 8000+miles 7+ years (Review+discussion)

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  • #3730645
    R Banks
    BPL Member

    @eddaka

    Locale: everywhere i guess

    I posted this somewhere else, but I cut my ultralight teeth on BPL with Ryan Jordan’s and other members SUL & UL philosophies. I have spent a lot of time with this tarp and it’s taught me a lot about comfort, site selection, and in general, how to be safe and dry in the backcountry in various conditions.

    I have been fortunate enough to use just this one tarp for my triple crown, and also many many other smaller hikes. For this review I would go like to go over some of general tarp usage thoughts, some pictures of it in use, and maybe some other general thoughts.

    Why the Grace Solo? What is the Grace solo? It’s an “A-frame” Catenary cut “trapezoidal” tarp, It’s basically a 7×9, but tapers to 5 feet on the bottom end. It also has what they call a “catenary cut,” on the top and sides, which cuts a little weight, but also helps keep it taught when pitched (In theory, I feel like cat cuts make more sense with “stretchier” fabrics) In my opinion it’s an excellent one person shelter. Just barely small enough to stay dry without a bivy,(with proper site selection) but just barely. It’s extremely light weight and extremely well made.

    I bought this tarp for my PCT thru hike in 2014, I bought it in November 2013, the only thing I asked for was no trekking pole grommets on the ridge-line tie-outs. It was not the first tarp I looked at for that hike, In fact I tried a Zpacks Hexamid, (now the hexamid pocket tarp) and didn’t like using the Carbon pole it came with. It was very dependent on the exact height of said pole, plus it’s just another thing to worry about.

    I disliked trekking poles, (still do) and didn’t wanna carry a flimsy carbon pole that might break, so i sent it back and bought the grace solo instead.

    First setup pic
    It came with linelock 3’s and some heavy 3mm guy-line. The linelock 3’s with the guy-line were heavy as hell. I think it was over 4oz?
    That’s over 50% of the tarp weight in guy-line, and guy-line hardware, no thanks.
    So I cut my own guy-lines. I used 1.3mm Zpacks Z-Cord for the four corners at 5ft length, and the two middle tie outs are 2.5ft. This leaves a little extra on the roll if a tie out wears out. (which took a thru hike and several years.) For the Ridgeline, I used roughly 11 feet (each end) of 1.75mm “lash it.” This stuff is just awesome. I have never replaced the Ridgeline after all these years, and it has wrapped around many trees and splintery sticks and it’s no more worse for wear.

    I used a pretty simple method with pitching, I use a truckers hitch for the ridge-line on a tree, Or I’ll clove hitch it to a stick, someones trekking pole, random bush, umbrella, etc… I just tie a permanent figure eight loop in the Z-cord guyline,(on both ends) put the stake through the loop, apply some lateral pressure when placing a stake, and….thats it. Sometimes I’ll do a little half hitch in the guyline if i need it to be shorter, (rocks or roots in the way) and just put the stake through that way. If it is windy or the ground sucks, then i just use a log or rock on top of the stake. I would only do this with “dyneema” though, as in my experience silnylon gets pretty flappy especially overnight or when it’s wet, but for me this system is simple, light, and most of all worked great, oh and did I mention this tarp weighs 6.4oz with the new guy-lines??

    So I thought I would share some pictures, I honestly cowboy whenever possible, because that’s part of the experience that I personally enjoy, but it’s always in the pack ready to go. To this day I’ve never had a hole or had to patch anything. It still keeps the rain out, I keep saying I’ll replace, but it wont die!!

    PCT Tarp Pictures

    Gear list here
    Our year wasn’t super crazy in 2014. Got snowed on Mt. San Jacinto (17 degrees that night apparently, one of, if not the coldest the whole hike) got dumped on a few times, in fact the first night at Lake Morena we had a crazy storm and I saw some ruined shelters (even a ruined Grace duo!)…But mine help up fine. It got pretty chilly up north, and it was wet.
    Lots of cowboy camping on the southern half, but it kept me warm and dry when I needed it.

    AT Tarp Pictures

    Gear list here
    Used it a bit on this hike. I finished pretty late due to my mom passing away,(June 4th Nobo, uh, what?) but it held up to ice, sleet, snow, wind, I did use a Bivy (MLD bug bivy) on this hike because Lyme ain’t no joke, but otherwise I’ll never use ’em.

    CDT Tarp Pictures

    Gear list here
    Years later and I thought about replacing the tarp for this hike but it just kept working! It took snow ice and rain, honestly didn’t get a ton of use until later in the hike. Got lucky with weather for a while. On this hike I also roomed with my homie under his two person MYOG Rayway, and it was a palace compared to my tarp, you can see it in some of the pictures.

    CT Tarp Pictures

    (My current list here, which is pretty similar to the one I used on this hike)

    Still kickin’! Had a couple nights above treeline with some tricky pitches, but generally worked out great. I would advise against using shaped A-frame shaped tarps in other “fancy” pitches, they just don’t work that well.

    So what can I say after using a tarp all this time? It’s awesome! I enjoy having that extra connection with nature when I camp, I can see everything around me, and when I cowboy I’m not burdened with a heavy shelter weight. Make no mistake tents definitely have their place, but for me, I do not like going into nature and then zipping myself out of it in some brightly colored tent.

    With that said, what are the downsides? Well there are three major ones I consider, but I have found a few ways to mitigate some of them.
    1.) Bug and creepy crawly protection: This a big one and probably the most common counter answer to tarp usage, what I have found is for the most part, creepy crawly’s leave you alone. if you hike until it gets dark, it usually gets colder, and cold blooded critters need sleep too. This goes along with the second point down below, and I have heard some horror stories, trust me, however I haven’t had any life altering bug/snake/centipede/bear experiences while sleeping. As for bugs, I usually just wear my baseball cap plus a bugnet, and if they’re really bad, maybe some earplugs and Benadryl. Except for some specific scenarios, usually the bugs went away at night(except some specific scenarios) and I could take my headnet off. If you camp next to a lake, there are gunna be mosquitos y’know? They let me know in the morning when it was time to start walkin’.

    2.) Site selection, site selection, site selection!! This I would say is the most important lesson to using a tarp. You cannot just camp wherever like our three season tent fam, I’m sorry, but it just isn’t be the same.

    You have to be a little more meticulous about where you camp and where you want to setup. I feel like this is a worthy payoff for shedding all that tent weight, but you can’t be lazy, especially if the weather looks bad. I didn’t carry poles, so if you’re heading above treeline or camping in the desert make sure you can figure out how to pitch your shelter. Spending that extra time on finding a good spot or finding a better area is paramount, or else you’ll just be sad and wet (ask me how I know)

    3.) Pitching a tarp. This takes some experience. Having numb fingers and trying to remember knots is recipe for disaster, know your shit before you go. There are a ton of ways to do this tarp thing, but I’ve mostly stuck with the A-frame.

    This tarp specifically doesn’t lend well to other pitches, but A-frame is easy to setup and can be pretty bomb proof, especially if you paid attention to number 2. Usually I pitched it pretty low, Not a lot of room to sit-up but optimum splash and rain protection. Not great for hanging out, good for sleeping tho.

    Moving forward would I buy another grace solo? the .74 (or i guess higher to midweight DCF) is exceptionally stout, I’ve seen alot of .51 DCF tarps and the weight is delicious, but I think the .75~ DCF strikes a good balance between weight and durability.

    I’ve thought about it, and the weight penalty for a rectangle 7×9 is not that drastic and at $270 before shipping, the MLD is a pricy bit of kit. It has however, held up great all these years and the only item that’s stayed with me from my first to last hike.

    Questions? Comments? Concerns?

    -R

    #3730661
    dirtbag
    BPL Member

    @dirtbaghiker

    This was great!!! Love all the pictures too!! Thanks for posting!

    #3730669
    Murali C
    BPL Member

    @mchinnak

    Amazing! Without tent poles too! Who would have thought? How many nights do you think you actually used it? Just curious. Good to hear that DCF tarp can last 8000 miles! The only thing that has lasted that long for me (without me changing for the next new shiny thing) is my hiking poles at 5500 miles so far and still going.

    Which backpack do you like the best? MLD or Palante or ULA CDT? :-)

    I am going to make the switch to just 1/8th foam rather than my Thermarest pad. Any tips? People say the first few times are bad and then you get used to it!

    #3730725
    R Banks
    BPL Member

    @eddaka

    Locale: everywhere i guess

    Hey Murali,

    I remember reading about a guy named “lint”(triple, triple crowner, you read that right.) long ago and I really dug his UL philosophy and vibe, and he never carried poles either, so I figured if  “someone” can do it, then surely it’s possible.

    It’s hard to say how many nights, def’ in the hundreds, but I have assuredly cowboy’d more than set it up.

    Although, I’ve used it alot even for stuff like a sun shade when car camping, midday siesta’s when hiking, and things like that. It’s so light I’ll take it day hiking for emergencies or whatever too.

    I also fold it, which I heard long ago “not to do” but it doesn’t have any creases, and it will sit in my closet for a year or two before i use it again sometimes, the seams all look good and everything works as it should, I will say it has shrunk a tad, and changed shape a little, the cat cuts are basically useless now, so it definitely has “worn” somewhat over time, it hasn’t delaminated or anything, but i feel like over the years it’s changed.

     

    What poles do you have? that’s really impressive! How many times have you replaced the tips?

    I really like fat, shorter, framless packs with super wide cushion’d shoulder straps. I guess “most” hikers are tall skinny folk, and so a lot of modern frameless packs reflect that i guess. I’m short-ish (5’7)  but no one seems to make them like that these days, old skewl SMD swift anyone? GG G4?(this one weighs almost 2.5 times as much as the old one, and all these packs looks like garbage, sorry GG) Rayway? I would say the CDT is most like that, but I wish somebody would make a rayway”esque” pack in that price range under 12 oz. All the UL packs these days have so many features, they’re heavy for what they are, they use the newest and greatest expensive fabric, usually they’re so custom with long lead times, I just want something simple, light, and well made.

     

    For the 1/8th, pretend you don’t have a pad at all. On the AT I Gave mine away at one point ‘cuz some dude was really stoked on it, haha, So i just went without it while ordering a new one, and it was basically not that different, ground was a little colder, but I think it felt kinda nice with a nice warm bag!

    Humans weren’t “designed” to sleep on a bed, that’s a new thing relatively speaking, so part of the experience I have sought out, was using nature as my bed. I’m not going out there to try and duplicate my home experience, it’s an added challenge, but one that I personally enjoy.

    Hope that helps, take care,

    -R

    #3730730
    Murali C
    BPL Member

    @mchinnak

    I have the Black Diamond Ergo trekking poles – aluminum. I am easy on my gear. I used to change the rubber pole tips when I lost them and after some time, gave up as they were getting lost often. The metal tips have not been changed yet – one is slightly bent. It will keep going I think – I was thinking it will get destroyed after the SHR – but, it survived.

    I use the poles as I have noticed that I get some shoulder pain when not using them – framed or frameless packs.

    The Nero probably fits the short, squat backpack for $200 bucks. The robic version is slightly cheaper – but CDT probably has better fabrics and will last longer. I have MLD Prophet I which like a lot and can carry a bear can great. MLD Burn seems a little too narrow at 10 inches. I find the palante packs too short for me torso wise.

    Regarding the 1/8th – I wanted to try it as sleeping on the Neoair feels a little unnatural due to the 2.5 inch elevation and needing to re-adjust every now and then. Let’s see how it goes. But, as you said, if you can do it for 8000 miles – maybe I can too:-)

    #3730731
    R Banks
    BPL Member

    @eddaka

    Locale: everywhere i guess

    I have a short torso (again 5’7) the nero always looked long on people to me, maybe I should give it a try, I think my MLD was 20″ and that seemed long(for me) as well.

    For reference my short Palante was the 16″ version and that seemed about right dimensionally for me. I haven’t measured the cdt but If i had to guess I think it’s about 18″.

    #3730763
    dirtbag
    BPL Member

    @dirtbaghiker

    I keep coming back to this! I love your camp spot and how you pitched the tarp sideways along the pines in the CT pictures.. The last few.. Then with the snow on it!!  Shows how versatile it is to use a tarp and sleep with nature!

    #3730770
    R Banks
    BPL Member

    @eddaka

    Locale: everywhere i guess

    Dirtbag, thanks for the kind words! I love using a tarp, and having a tent does have it advantages, especially if your hiking with a lover or partner, but I truly love using a tarp even besides the weight advantages!

    Take care,

    -R

    #3730910
    dirtbag
    BPL Member

    @dirtbaghiker

    “Spending that extra time on finding a good spot or finding a better area is paramount, or else you’ll just be sad and wet (ask me how I know)”.

    ?? Care to elaborate on this one??  I’m sure after all those thru hikes and shorter hikes, all of those miles.. there were a few times?

    #3731093
    dirtbag
    BPL Member

    @dirtbaghiker

    This inspired me again. I decided to ditch the line locs on my Borah Gear solo silpoly tarp. Old fashioned knots are good to go. I use trekking poles so I wont be ditching them.  The Borah Gear tarp is slim.. 5.8 x 9.. but I also carry a bivy so that makes up for splash protection.

    #3731718
    Miner
    BPL Member

    @miner

    Locale: SoCAL

    My first Grace Solo tarp with the 1st generation cuben fiber; I think it was .65 or .68 wt back then.  I had that for 8 years (2008-2016) and used in on the PCT and a 600 mile section hike of the AT, plus a bunch of shorter hikes.  The material did start to break down at the end where in a prolong rain, the bottom side would get get damp and then mist down on me when the rain hit the tarp. Decided it was time to replace it and then bought the 0.5wt version of the Grace Solo in 2016.  It’s held up well over the past 5 years including some section hikes on the CDT and I don’t see any sign of it breaking down at all.  I suspect the .74 will last longer overall being thicker.  Glad to hear it’s still holding up.

    That said, while I always carry the tarp, I seldom set it up unless the weather calls for it as I normally cowboy camp. I do use a bivy with mine (MLD Superbivy), but that is mostly because I often use the bivy for cowboy camping, though I may leave it unzipped overnight if the wind/bugs don’t call for it.

    #3731958
    dirtbag
    BPL Member

    @dirtbaghiker

    Not to beat a dead horse but another quick question for you.. do you leave all your guy lines attached to your tarp or no?

    #3732816
    Miner
    BPL Member

    @miner

    Locale: SoCAL

    “Not to beat a dead horse but another quick question for you.. do you leave all your guy lines attached to your tarp or no?”

    Guylines are always attached on mine as I don’t see a reason to take them off.  I also rarely use linelocs either.  My lines are designed for 3 lengths (short, half length and full length) as I’ve always been able to swing my lines in an arc around where I want to place them and usually have found somewhere where I can push them in. Look at the last few photos to see how my guylines are used at different lengths: https://photos.app.goo.gl/dLzudkMU3CEV7WRZA

    #3735428
    Diane “Piper” Soini
    BPL Member

    @sbhikes

    Locale: Santa Barbara

    I love this post and the fact that you put pictures with it.

    I too have grown to prefer tarp camping to tent camping. I think I would still prefer a tent when mosquitoes are bad but when they’re not too bad I’ve actually enjoyed just sleeping under the sky and laying there watching the mosquitoes make swirling columns and bumping into each other above me. Weird how they were more interested in each other than in eating me.

    Everybody likes to say the ticks out east will kill you with lyme, and you echo that. Honestly do they really crawl around on the ground there? Generally out west I have been able to see them “questing” on the ends of grasses along the trail. That’s where I’ve picked up ticks, not while lying in my bed. I’m sure any ticks I’ve ever found in my bed were already on me when I got in. Do they seek you out on the east coast?

    #3746294
    Chris K
    BPL Member

    @cmkannen-2-2

    Richard would you still go with a flat tarp over the cat cut? I’m gonna size down from an 8 x 10 (too flappy) and can’t make up my mind. Any others prefer flat even if the pitch is mostly A-frame?

    #3746307
    R L
    Spectator

    @slip-knot

    Locale: SF Bay Area, East Bay

    Im in a dry NorCal climate.  A 7×9 SilPoly flat tarp with a BPWD Min 1 net tent is my go-to.  I have no experience with cat cuts and do not really want one.  Flats are much more user friendly, imo, to pitch according to circumstances.  Having a half dozen pitches in the quiver makes life easy.  My jam.  Just some thoughts.

    I concur with what Ms Soini mentions about ticks.  I’ve kinda learned to be able to see them.  Not all of them but once you get dialed in, single tracking isn’t so bad.  I’m relying on heavy doses of, cough cough, permethrin as ammo.  Anyway,  drifted off topic a bit.  Peace, ~RL

    #3746334
    R L
    Spectator

    @slip-knot

    Locale: SF Bay Area, East Bay

    Chimin’ in again.  sorry.  I had more time this morn to enjoy the pic’s !  I’m a weekday hiker/camper vs weekend warrior due to being retired.  Usually I set up the net tent first and keep the tarp close by or rolled up as a ridgeline.  If there’s a threat of dew or rain,  it’s easy enough to deploy.  Stargazing isn’t as awesome looking thru no-see-um but I’m cool with it.  I’ve found Simply Light Designs tarps to be some of the best.  ~RL

    #3810245
    dirtbag
    BPL Member

    @dirtbaghiker

    Had to bring this post back, have it saved as a favorite for tarp camping.  I always read/refer to it.  Answered my own question in other post about connection with knots..

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