Episode 49 | Untraditional Layers

I’m 15 minutes into it (there doesn’t seem to be any speed control – I see why my kids listen to their college lectures at 2.5x).

The “non-traditional” layering I do are:
1) no outer layer.  Just stuff (poly-pro, fleece, pile) that keeps me warm when wet and that dries as you wear it (once the rain stops).  It seems ideal for, say, a BPing or cycling trip in Iceland with rain and wind that can go on all day.
2) around town in winter, I’ve long gone with flannel-lined jeans, a t-shirt and a big jacket.  All three for use outdoor, but then after getting to work or home, I just take the big jacket off and I’m fine.  Yeah, cotton is bad for spring skiing in the Sierra, but in New England or Alaska, where there’ll be no liquid water until spring, cotton is just fine around town – easy to launder, no static sparks.

Maybe include a set of fishnet base layers?

I live in the Hudson Highlands in NY. It’s pretty humid here, and it gets wet and cold. I always carry a proper array of gear in my pack, to match the conditions of the season. However, my philosophy has always been “start cold, keep moving, stay cool”. So, down to around 45F I wear shorts and a sleeveless synthetic. I carry an umbrella for rain. Harder rain, colder weather, I add layers rather than subtract, and I adjust my pace to stay as dry as possible. In the snow, I wear fleece tights and the shorts, with a single long sleeved fleece hoodie, and have ready gear for when I stop, to stay warm. I also wear waterproof socks in the winter.

My hands are my worst enemy. I have Raynaud’s. So, even when I’m wearing just the sleeveless and shorts, if it’s cool, I’m wearing gloves.  I keep hand warmers, possum down liners, insulated gloves, down mittens, and pertex shells, all for my damn hands.

Anyway… that’s my system such as it is.

Hi Kenneth,

I recently came up with the idea of making a sort of poncho with sleeves and pit zips that would fit over my backpack, maximising ventilation without the flapping and poor arm protection of poncho. And then I discovered The Packa, which is exactly what I was thinking of. So much for innovative thinking.. My question is: does it work in prolonged rain? My breathable rain jacket doesn’t when hiking for hours in the rain, because the jacket wets out and sweat builds up underneath. Since I only put my rain jacket on when it actually rains, I’m beginning to question if I need a breathable and waterproof fabric at all. I use a windjacket that’s breathable and that will get me through a light drizzle. So when it starts to rain, a well ventilated and fully waterproof jacket might even be better then my current shell. What’s your experience with The Packa?

The water that gets in my Packa has done so through openings lije the cuffs not through the fabric. It would be my choice in expected to be wet places lije the UK or the US east coast. My last use was on the Northville Placid trail and it dealt with a lot of heavy driving rain.

I finally had a moment to watch this and enjoyed the content. Two questions for Ryan, Andrew or anyone else related to the last segment and rain shells:

1) Any thoughts on pit zip location? I used to have a shell from Luke’s Ultralight which had pit zips that started just below my armpit and extended pad my elbows. Luke’s logic for the placement was that it maintained breathability when wearing a pack because it eliminated interference with the lower part of the shoulder strap which tends to keep deep torso zips from breathing. I found the airflow from these zips to be very effective.

2) I tend to buy shells a little baggy and I find I can get a lot of airflow by leaving the hem loose and pulling the shell over my hipbelt. I do wear my hipbelt lower than many so that might make this a more reasonable option. It’s a simple solution but it provides a lot of mechanical ventilation. Do others do this?

I love Luke’s Ultralight pit zips. they’re actually long enough.

I’m also a huge fan of 2-way side zips, armpits to hem, both sides. Allows you to drape the garment over a hip belt and let it flap around for lots of ventilation, or because the zips are 2-way, insert the hip belt through the zippered opening for more weather protection.

Neither of these solve the main issue for backpacking, however – the wet back syndrome. Still need a back that remains off your back (curved frame stays a la Osprey and ZPacks Arc), or a hybrid VB vest like the Forty Below ones.

A question and a couple comments.

Question to Ryan or others that have used Senchi Designs hoodies, how is the durability?

Comments:

I have used the windshirt layer under insulation for close to 30 years. Back when running a lot of trail ultra’s, my favorite below zero combo was a synthetic sleeveless with a Marmot DriClime over that and a Lowe Alpine Ninja fleece on the outside.

Another favorite of mine is a base layer and a wind vest, preferably with a highly breathable back or mesh back and the use arm warmers as conditions require. I’ve gone back to this system recently and wonder why I ever stopped. I am curious about the backless anorak and have come very close to ordering one from Camp several times. Suppose I should, if I want one as they are only available on closeout

I also really like two way zippers.

Dustin,

Did you order the Camp, or does someone else make a backless anorak?

I know that Patagonia makes/made a running jacket with twin zippers that the front panel could be unzipped. Seemed kind of overly complex.

At the discounted price, it’s not a big gamble.

Curious how well it works for you.

Regarding the  fish net base layer, do you run the risk of sunburn if only wearing the Brynje?

Are vapor barriers so unpopular they don’t merit discussion? I’ve had great success with a vapor barrier shirt in shoulder and winter use (Stephenson Warmlite – ugly, my kids called it the plastic vomit shirt – but very effective).  I used a fishnet T in the 70s, but it was cotton. Re: Brynje, you prefer the polypropylene to their wool version?